Daring Fireball’s John Gruber in conversation with The Verge’s Nilay Patel about the iPhone, camera photography and more. It’s a wide-ranging interview – more than two and a half hours – but listening flew by, because Gruber and Patel are outstanding speakers.

One particular point jumped out at me: The camera has become a primary input device for iPhones. Cameraphones are now multipurpose machines used to record a wide range of video and photos: Hollywood movies, fine art photography and videos, family milestones such as a child’s first steps and weddings, casual photos (“Hey, look at this!"), and serial numbers on consumer purchases. And the phone is expected to excel at all those things.